Speaker 1: 0:14

all right. Hey, you are here with the respecting perspectives podcast and, uh, thank you for joining us. I have Brian Potts here, who is the owner of HCD Studios. He is a musician, a photographer, a world traveler Gosh man, you know. Tell me a little bit about yourself. Give me a little bit about how you ended up in the seat here give me a little bit about how you ended up in the seat here.

Speaker 2: 0:52

Oh well, I guess it's been quite a journey. I'm a native Marylander. I grew up in between Catonsville and then mostly out in Howard County, and I've just been a passionate creative. You know, my entire life I've always been an artist in some form or another. You know, I can remember being a little kid and learn how to draw and paint and always love cameras and. But drums was, you know, drums was always my, my, main thing once you know, I had an experience when I was four years old, played drums at my aunt's wedding. So that was.

Speaker 2: 1:27

I guess you know my first gig, so to speak, right, but yeah, just like getting up on stage and I remember not being able to reach the kick drum pedal and just kind of like hitting everything with the sticks and just really feeling it. And then a couple other experiences, you know and. And then, you know, when I was 10 years old I started playing drums and just never looked back. So you know, I mean, we met through music and a lot of things in my life have happened through music. So, you know, I would say, I would say music is really why I'm here in this seat.

Speaker 1: 2:04

I love that man. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So wait you. So you, the first time you've ever played, played a drum. The drums was when you were four years old man. Tell me what that. Tell me what that was like. What type of like feelings did you get when, when you, you know, when, you were in that seat?

Speaker 2: 2:29

Well, I can tell you, I have a picture of that, of me on the drum set and it's next to my bed, something I look at every day, nice, and I just remember, um, I just remember it being just this incredible feeling, you know, uh, that like an. I didn't understand it at the time, obviously, I was four years old, I barely knew what I was doing, but I just remember it being like the coolest thing that you know. I would hit, you know, this thing here and it sounded one way and this other thing over here sounded, you know, like crash, you know boom, you know and like, and I just remember just feeling like this connection that I couldn't describe. Yeah, you know, later, years later, I heard somebody tell me a story, you know a paraphrase, but like there were two African drummers a couple of miles apart and one guy started playing a rhythm and the other guy heard him, and then, when he stopped, the other guy started playing, and so they kind of like, you know, kind of like what we call trading for is almost right.

Speaker 2: 3:35

They're playing back and forth, and so they decided that they would seek each other out. And um, the one guy said he said, he said what were you saying? And he said I hear you, brother, but I can't understand what you're saying. You know, and it's. It's just like I badly paraphrased that story, but it's just a story about, um, like the language of music and how it connects people you know, man, I love that dude.

Speaker 1: 4:01

I feel like music is universal and really there's times where I don't understand the actual lyrics themselves, but there is a lot of appreciation for language itself, you know, and being able to learn it and music has really helped shape my life and sounds like yours as well, and a lot of the people around us, you know, to be able to help us communicate with each other. You know it's a beautiful thing communicate with each other. You know it's it's it's a beautiful thing. Tell me a little bit about your musical background. You know a little bit post the, the four-year-old and 10-year-old stories there.

Speaker 2: 4:56

Well, an interesting story that I often tell younger drummers is so my mom was noticeably displeased when I came home and told her, when I was in middle school, that I joined the band. And she said well, what instrument are you gonna play? And I said the drums. And I don't think my parents really knew what to expect at that point. Right, and I said I'm gonna play the drums and I want you to buy me a drum set.

Speaker 2: 5:23

And my parents, you know like this is one thing I'm really grateful for is that my parents never really gave me things like of course, I mean of course they did, but but like the things that they made me earn stuff is what I'm trying to say. Yeah, you know, they made me work for things. So this story goes me little. Me, I want a drum set. My mom and dad are like how old were you? 10 years old, okay, right. My mom and dad are like no, we're not buying you a drum set, but we'll make you a deal. If you keep playing all through middle school until you get to high school, then we'll buy you a drum set. Oh nice, I was like okay, so that gave me like the determination, right?

Speaker 2: 6:06

So my dad was a carpenter, so you know, uh, he's retired now but he still builds things all the time.

Speaker 2: 6:14

I'm also a carpenter is one of the things that I do and enjoy and I have loved to build stuff ever since I was a little kid. You know mostly hammered my thumbs for a long time, but eventually I figured it out. You know lots of splinters and whatnot. So, undeterred, stubborn me goes to my dad's wood shop and I built my own drum pad set at 10 years old and I glued pieces of rubber onto MDF and I built stands out of two by fours and I put supports on the bottom and I built a bass drum pedal with a little spring in it so it would actually go up and down like a pedal. And I mean, this thing was serious. I wish I still had it Right. Um, and then I took old signs, my dad's old advertising signs that were pieces of sheet metal and I cut circles out of them and I drilled a hole in the middle and I put pop rivets in them and I made symbols.

Speaker 1: 7:16

How did you know to build things in this way?

Speaker 2: 7:23

I don't think I really did know. I don't think I really did know. I mean, I had the basic skills, but I was totally designing it as I went along, of course, you know.

Speaker 2: 7:33

I'm very much an autodidact oh what is that? So an autodidact is someone, basically someone who can teach themselves or can easily learn things on their own. Okay, so I had had plenty of experience of like using tools and things like that not power tools at that point, at least, not without my dad's help, of course but I was a very, and always have been like a very hands-on, creative kind of person. So I just thought, hey look, I gotta build something to hold it up and I gotta build something to hit on the top. And I knew that rubber cement would, would hold the rubber or the, the rubber to the to the wood.

Speaker 2: 8:23

So, you know, and like I don't even honestly, I don't even remember if I even got permission you probably did I just went, you know, I mean we, you know it was like a big, huge wood shop with all the tools and lots of material, and so I just grabbed some things and put it all together and put it in the. You know, we had a like an upstairs family room in between my sister and i's room and, um, the rest, as they say, is history, right? Oh man, that's, that's so cool yeah, uh, were you able to?

Speaker 1: 9:02

um, how long did you have that set? Um, you know before what? You were then able to get your own drum set. You were able to fulfill the mission there yep, yep, it was.

Speaker 2: 9:13

It was motivating enough for me to to stick with it. Um, I joined. Well, I played in all the bands, like all the bands that that they offered Okay At school and whatnot, yeah at school and took a few private lessons. A lot of what I learned I learned by listening and playing, along with things which later on led me to you know, it contributed to my abilities as a session drummer, where I could listen to a piece of music, maybe a couple times, two or three times, and then basically go in and play it off the top of my head.

Speaker 2: 9:55

Wow, that's impressive and yeah, I mean it was something that took a long time to develop. But it's something that I'm proud to be able to do.

Speaker 1: 10:03

Yeah, that's awesome. I think that takes a special ability to be able to just um hear something and, uh, you know, turn it into something. I guess that's that's what all music is and that's where that kind of creativity aspect, uh, of an artist, you know um comes into play. Um a little bit more, though, about the music, where, would you say, you kind of went with that kind of leading up to what you're doing now with that?

Speaker 2: 10:35

Well, I started playing in bands, like my own bands, pretty soon after I got a drum set a few years later. Um, I remember being in middle school and just like wanting to play like this one syncopated beat and just and just like working at it so hard on a mission.

Speaker 2: 11:00

And and now I I mean like now, like for me, now, like playing drums is like walking, like I don't think about it, it just comes out right, like they say, you know, 10,000 hours or whatever.

Speaker 2: 11:12

You know, I probably spend a lot more than 10,000 hours, for sure, right, but yeah, I just, you know, like those experiences of playing in bands led to wanting to record our music and back then we had, you know, like everybody says, oh, back then we had four track tape machines and we recorded on cassettes, you know, and it's like, and for real, I mean, that's what we did, and we didn't even have four microphones and I think we might have had one mic stand and two microphones were just taped on to something to get them off the ground and hang them in the air.

Speaker 2: 11:58

Somehow it was like guerrilla recording for sure. Like guerrilla recording for sure, um, you know, but I mean, eventually that led to me, you know, recording in like real studios with like real, you know, legit stuff and and a lot of analog recording recording to tape and ADATs and stuff like that. And then, um, at a certain point I had a partnership with two people that I played music with and we all had a studio together so we could like pre-produce and record. And then I kind of went out on my own after a while of that um and started my own studio and started making different kinds of records for people and tell them about your studio drums.

Speaker 1: 12:49

What's the name of it?

Speaker 2: 12:50

And it's still, it's still HCD studios. I mean, I don't really right now I don't really do the same kind of commercial work that I used to do. I do like live event production Okay, but I um like live event production okay. Um, but I I still write music and I have a killer recording studio and like not to brag, but like a really nice collection of actual real, like vintage analog gear and you know all the fancy microphones and all those things and I build electronics, um, so I've been able to build a lot of like the, a lot of the things that you see in the major label studios. I'm able to build those same circuits now.

Speaker 1: 13:34

Yeah, and I think something that to touch on with that is right. Being able to kind of put all those things together, I think, makes you a lot more appreciative of the, the systems that you have at your fingertips, right? Um, what are the advantages of, you know, being able to build something yourself, rather than just like going to like guitar center or sweet water to to buy it?

Speaker 2: 14:01

Um, well it's. It's led me for one to have a really cool job working at you know a university and doing all the repairs for the entire university, for that department, um, but I would say I mean like there's no two ways about it. Having a recording studio is not easy and it's not inexpensive. And now if you want to get a, you know, a two channel interface and plug it into your laptop and and you get a set of headphones and a couple of microphones then, you could say, okay, it's not that expensive.

Speaker 2: 14:38

But when you want to record a band, when you want to record live drums, live instruments, and you know you got to have enough microphones and enough preamps and enough compressors and some equalizers, you know my because my recording philosophy is like part of it was influenced by by Dave Nachotsky, who's a who's a very well-known local engineer, um, but I worked with him a lot and and so it's it's about really getting the sound that you want going in. It's about really getting the instrument the way you know, choosing the right instrument, like the right drums, or the right guitar amp, or the right bass guitar, you know, whatever, getting it to sound the way that you want you know, putting the microphones, choosing the right kinds of microphones, putting them in the right place.

Speaker 2: 15:22

I mean, it's all of these little details that add up and so, anyway, so it's very expensive to go out and buy that stuff from like a guitar center or Sweetwater or whatever, and we're very fortunate nowadays, as anyone who's really involved in audio knows nowadays as anyone who's really involved in audio knows to be able to buy kits and parts of these circuits, these famous circuits.

Speaker 2: 15:51

I mean I've built Neve, api, ssl, millennia, neumann, akg. I mean other things like that. If you know audio, you know what those names are. You know, I just built my second yuri 1176 clone. I built, uh, an ssl g bus compressor, you know, which is like one of the really famous how much would things like that cost if you were to buy them?

Speaker 2: 16:16

uh, I think in a, I think, in 1176. A yuri right now is probably, I don't know, twenty five hundred dollars or something and how much can you, would you be able to make it for?

Speaker 2: 16:30

I mean the kit, like parts wise, would be like less than you know a little under like 700 bucks, wow you know. But then it's a probably a 14 hour build, maybe plus calibration. So you got to have that's good. You gotta have a tone generator. You gotta have a certain kind of um multimeter. You gotta have a really good soldering iron. You gotta have a reasonable tool collection, not a lot of stuff, but you know um you gotta have a place you can work, you know, with some ventilations. You don't, you know, drive yourself crazy inhaling solder fumes. Um, but but so for me, the the real benefit was being able to build things, also being able to fix things when they break um, being able to make all my own cables, being able to wire all my own patch bays, being able to offer my services to other studio owners. That's a good point. Um, you, um, you know I mean this, this place that we're in right now, the watermelon room, um, you know, you know a little bit about the.

Speaker 2: 17:32

I know a little bit about the watermelon room. Why?

Speaker 1: 17:34

don't you give us a little? Give us a little uh history to.

Speaker 2: 17:38

Yeah, that was on, that was like I and I want to. I want to say like thank you for all the conversations leading up to this.

Speaker 1: 17:46

Dude, yes, man.

Speaker 2: 17:49

I'm super appreciative and I don't want to be remiss if I don't thank Matt Gruby for being along production-wise with you. Thank you.

Speaker 2: 17:57

Matt and for everything he's doing. I've known him for years, fellow drummer, fellow drummer yeah, he's a really talented drummer, he's. He's a. I mean he's always been super nice to me and kind and like we've always gotten along. Um, and you know, and and shout out to garrett long, I mean garrett's um. You know, garrett's the owner here of the watermelon room and um, he was my my longest serving and best assistant and first intern and then assistant engineer. We worked together on I don't even know how many records. How long ago was this? Like I don't know, 20 years or something I don't even know. Man, like time, you know, it's like I'd have to think about it.

Speaker 1: 18:49

Right.

Speaker 2: 18:51

Several of my studio iterations ago and he's been with me through and he's done a great job here and it makes me proud to know that I was able to mentor him for a while and work with him, and we learned so much from each other. That's awesome.

Speaker 1: 19:22

From each other, you know.

Speaker 2: 19:23

Um, I think one of the best things that I learned from having interns and assistants is is from the questions that they asked me that I didn't know.

Speaker 1: 19:36

You know, forced you to learn more for yourself.

Speaker 2: 19:39

Yeah, yeah, I mean, it's like you got to rise to the occasion. You know and and and like, and it reminds me to remain humble. You know, there's like. That's one thing I I've always loved about drumming is like you're never going to learn it all. Right, you could. I mean you could study jazz your entire life. You could study progressive metal, you could. You could. You could drill down to like one particular style of music and study that your entire life and you're never going to learn at all. How cool is that?

Speaker 2: 20:10

it's, it's amazing I mean I will never forget, um, when I, when I was living in india, studying classical indian music, um, I lived with my teacher and his family oh, cool and um. I will never forget the first time that I sat down that wasn't, it was a lesson, but it it wasn't like any of our other lessons had been. And so we were sitting there and we were playing music together and I mean, I've been playing drums for, let's see, it would have been 26 years, I guess at that point, long time, yeah, a long time and I felt like nothing in my entire musical career had prepared me for this moment. And why do you say that? Because I felt like a complete beginner. Oh, wow, I made just mistake after mistake after mistake, and I'm not used to that. I mean, of course I make mistakes, everybody makes mistakes.

Speaker 1: 21:10

yeah, um, but it was just like it was like wow exactly yeah, yeah, tell me a little bit more um with your, your travels themselves, um, you know how music has maybe led you into that, or not even music itself, but, um, I know, um, with some of the conversations that we've had, that you have been around the world. You know, tell me some, and the listeners some places that you've been and, uh, some of the things that you've learned in those places.

Speaker 2: 21:49

Wow, it's really hard to put it into words. I mean I've been very fortunate. I've been to 29 countries on five continents. Yeah, I mean and I say that like, I say that with some humility Like I realize how fortunate I am to have had these experiences, you know Right, and I've done my best to share those experiences with others. That's one thing that sort of like reignited my love of photography. Was all like doing travel photography.

Speaker 2: 22:27

I was like let me share these experiences with people and then I was like if I'm going to share these experiences with people, I better like go back to my art fundamentals, my color theory, my um, uh, you know, framing and and my composition techniques, you know, and the storytelling of how do you tell a story with a photo, and but I mean, yeah, like so many, so many experiences I've had traveling. I think it's one of the things that I recommend most, like when I teach young people and when I mentor young people at the university that I work at, it's something that I recommend to pretty much everybody, and I recommend traveling alone.

Speaker 1: 23:20

Yeah, we just talked about that in the past episode with Grayson and you know, yeah, it really depends on who you're traveling with to be able to bring out that particular side of you. But why would you say travel alone? What do you think the benefits of that are?

Speaker 2: 23:41

Well, so to be clear, I'm not recommending always traveling alone, mmm right, I'm not recommending only traveling alone, gotcha, but I'm recommending traveling alone with, with like intention, okay. So to me there's, you know, there's like traveling, that's like, there's like tourism and traveling, okay. Or like there's like going on vacation and then there's traveling, oh, I like that. So I mean, to me, a vacation is, you know, we, you know like we go to the beach, right, or we go, you know, we like to go to national parks. Steph and I like to go to national parks.

Speaker 2: 24:25

Steph and I like to go to national parks and so that's a vacation for me. You know it's more relaxing, you're kind of just having fun and things like that, whereas when I think of traveling, I think of immersing yourself in another culture, I think of learning a little bit of the language, if you can, at least how to you know? How do you count from one to five? You know ecto, ecto, teen char, pach, right, um, I can count to five and I don't have any languages.

Speaker 2: 25:00

But quite quite a few, um, but just, I mean those basic things. You know, like how to say thank you, you know in Hindi, you know, so you say danyabad, you know like saying like you say danyabad to somebody and their face lights up Right, because they're like this person is trying, right, yeah. But I think the reason that I recommend traveling by yourself is there's it's, it's just you, it's. You walk out the door and one of my favorite things to do is just turn left or right, right, right, I don't have a plan. You know, maybe I have a plan, Okay, maybe I want to go see this thing today at whatever time, you know.

Speaker 2: 25:41

But just walk out the door and you turn left or right and the adventure happens Right, and you're not, you're reliant on yourself, you're dependent on yourself. It builds confidence. It builds a sense of being able to handle sort of like whatever life is throwing at you, of like whatever life is throwing at you. Um, my, you know my university job, we do, you know, I do large-scale events and like broadcast sports and things like that. So it can be very stressful and it can go from like a walk in the park to like a total stress fest in a matter of like seconds. Sometimes you know when, when we're broadcasting out, you know and and things like that. So it's just being able to know that you know, as I like to say, like the universe makes space for us, oh yeah.

Speaker 1: 26:40

So what does that mean if dig, dig in a little?

Speaker 2: 26:43

bit. Um. Well, let me let me come back to that, but let let me let me just talk. Just say a couple more things about traveling. Of course it's. You know you, there there's a self-confidence that you gain. There's, there's a it's. It's like people have problems with anxiety. A lot of times, you know, and your mind is sort of in the future when it should be more present, of times, you know, and your mind is sort of in the future when it should be more present, and, and I think, a lot of times those thoughts can be like thoughts of like I'm not going to be okay, right, but when you're traveling and and you're going through those things and you're in places that you've never been and you meet people and you deal with language barriers and strange foods and all of these experiences, Like it just builds a level of self-confidence and like centeredness that I haven't found another thing that does that.

Speaker 1: 27:40

Man, that's crazy that you said that I never really put that piece of the puzzle together of the fact that as you're traveling you're kind of coming across many different challenges that maybe you haven't been able to put yourself in, and those hurdles themselves can really build character. So yeah, I love the way that you put that and I think it takes a special type of person to be able to kind of open the door. And when I was a kid I was always, you know, up until a certain age obviously, I was always scared to sleep over friends' houses or this or that, but then, once I started to get to see some things around the world, it really did.

Speaker 1: 28:34

I. Then it ignited some sort of fire inside me to really want to gosh. It really allowed me to be in the in the present time. And not just that, but it that like sense of, of curiosity, you know. Um, I then got this it was, it was almost like a drug. It was like that feeling to where, like, I can thrive, like anywhere in in the world, you know, and to be able to to experience. That is um, that's a gift man, so so thanks for for allowing me to think about that.

Speaker 2: 29:16

Yeah, I mean that's. That's what I mean when I say the universe is going to make space for you, right. So I'll give you an example. I used to be pretty scared about not having a place to stay Right. So what I mean is, like, if I'm leaving like, let's say, today I'm leaving on a road trip, right. If I'm leaving like, let's say, today I'm leaving on a road trip, right. And if I don't have a place to stay tonight, like I get a little anxiety right Used to be. Now I just know that the universe is going to make space for me, right, right, because I've had enough of those experiences where, like, I know in the back of my mind that I'm going to be okay. You know, maybe today's my last day but, other than that I'm going to be okay.

Speaker 2: 30:15

Right If that, if that freight train doesn't come my way, you know what I mean, or whatever it is Right, cause we never know. But I mean that's what I mean, but like the universe is going to make space for you. Yeah, but I mean that's what I mean, but like the universe is going to make space for you. Yeah, you know, I've, I was traveling out west actually during the pandemic and and like there were several times when I left in the morning and of course I had, I had my camping gear with me.

Speaker 2: 30:44

I did a lot of camping. I only maybe hotel, like you know, a handful of nights. I mostly camp because I like camping and it's also really cheap usually, of course. But I like camping because I like that connectedness to the, to the wilderness and and just to have my own campsite and be able to have a fire and get my stove out and cook dinner and things like that. But yeah, there were several times when I left out in the morning and I went on my adventure and I remember one time in particular particular, I was going towards the grand canyon and I didn't have a place to stay and it was. I don't remember what time it was. I know it was dark, it was probably.

Speaker 2: 31:35

You know, it was probably nine o'clock at night and I'm just I'm just still you hear the wolves howling in the background right and I'm, and, yeah, and I'm just driving down the road and and and a hotel presents itself and I'm like, damn man, like the universe is providing a space again. Yeah, um, you know, and and like I mean we talked about a lot of things in our conversation and I'm a fairly private person normally. I don't. Really I used to kind of squawk a lot on social media. I went through a really terrible experience with someone and that kind of changed my perspective on social media, but I've always been sort of a fairly private person, you know. But this is, I see this as a great opportunity you know, to share.

Speaker 2: 32:32

You know to share some of these. You know, I want to go trekking in the Himalayas. I want to go volunteer to teach music to kids in Nepal for a month and live with a family.

Speaker 2: 32:51

Or, you know, I want to go on safari in Nepal and see a tiger, like like it's wild I mean, yeah, I mean, but yeah, like I just you know when, when I, when I work with young people, I tell them like look, you know, money's going to come and go, Things are going to happen in your life, Um, but you're never going to replace those experiences. Yeah, you know, and I almost yeah, and, and I almost sort of see myself sometimes as like a collector of experiences- oh, I like that.

Speaker 1: 33:30

I'm taking a mental note of that one for sure.

Speaker 2: 33:33

Yeah, I mean not for the sake of collecting experiences, but because those experiences have meaning. You know what I mean. Yeah for sure. So like what's like? You've told me some experiences you had. I mean, like what would be an experience that you've had traveling or being sort of, let's just say, outside of your comfort zone. That's stuck with you.

Speaker 1: 33:58

Gosh, do you remember when no, I don't when the world was supposed to end with the Mayan calendar?

Speaker 2: 34:10

Well, yeah, All these freak out moments never seem to come true. It's, like you know, weird. Well, dude.

Speaker 1: 34:17

I was in Amsterdam when the world was supposed to end. Uh, the world was supposed to end and you know, there was like, you know, in the newspapers, like even in the newspapers, it's like is this the last day? You know, there were, like I remember yeah so many, so many things that were like reminding me of this last day and I'm like shit, I'm like if, if, it's gonna be the last day, I mean like I'm in amsterdam, like I mean how bad, it's a crazy place yeah, I'm like how bad could, uh, my last day be?

Speaker 1: 34:54

so, um, man, that was one of the experiences that really helped um shape my life. Actually, because, like you know that I don't get me wrong like I did have just a little bit of anxiety about um you know what was um going to happen, although it then like brought me, um, let's see here, uh, a moment of clarity where I was like like look at the frickin earth and like how long it's been here, like there's nothing or no one that can predict an end to all of this craziness that has already occurred. And I'm like, in my mind, I'm like okay, like everything is going to be fine, like there's nothing like the billions of years that have created all of this Right.

Speaker 1: 35:52

And then like one day it's just going to end because, you know, because somebody said so, so, gosh man, that was one time that I really, and then, you know, woke up the next day and I had like dude, I had like a fresh slate. I was like I felt like I could take you know, I felt like.

Speaker 2: 36:11

I could take on the whole world after that it was like it was like Y2K, you know, and, and everybody's like, oh, you know, all the computers are going to die and everything's going to stop working, and literally it was the most anticlimactic, uneventful you know whatever day of the week morning it was when we all woke up and realized like wow, you just like freaked us out. Yeah. For completely nothing Like it's like it couldn't have been any more normal. It was just like oh, it just went from zero to one, okay, cool.

Speaker 1: 36:52

It's wild, isn't it? You know, something that we have been conversing about that I really want to touch on is something called that you actually introduced to me, called levels of analysis. Yeah, I think we should dive. Yeah, that's a deep dive. Yeah, I think we should dive into that. For the listeners who don't know, is that a term that you created yourself or is this something that you learned on your travels?

Speaker 2: 37:23

I mean sure I'll take credit for it.

Speaker 2: 37:25

I mean I don't, it's yeah. I I mean I think I guess that term like I've never heard anybody say it that way. I I mean I'm sure somebody has, like you know just how many billion people in the world, right? Um, but yeah, I mean levels of analysis. I mean it's simple and it's also extremely complicated at the same time. Okay, the way I look at it is it's a framework that I apply to difficult questions or to you know whether it's, you know, they say like don't talk about religion and politics. So they say like don't talk about religion and politics. So I think we should probably talk we should do politics, that's why we're here you know,

Speaker 2: 38:12

because, um, I've never been one to like let people tell me what to do. Very well, nice, generally a leader and a mentor and not someone who's like good at I mean. Mean, I'm an okay employee, I guess, but I'm a much better leader and and I always tend to be the one that like steps up and kind of takes the reins when shit goes sideways, especially especially doing events. But anyway, um, yeah, so levels of analysis, I mean it's basically, you know, the idea is that everything has different levels of complexity. So one of the things that for me, we have, like I have I'm sure other people have these experiences too but we have these formative moments in our life, like I was sharing with you when I went over, I hiked the Annapurna circuit in Nepal and went over Thirung La Pass, which is over 17,000 feet, which is a huge deal.

Speaker 2: 39:09

Yeah, it's a famous thing and it was a dream fulfilled for me. It was something I had wanted to do since I was seeing these things in National Geographic as a kid.

Speaker 2: 39:23

But the levels of analysis is a framework that you can apply to situations and it's like think about it like an onion, right, okay, if you have an onion in your hand and you want to understand this onion, like the surface level, things are easily peeled away, like those first couple, like really papery brown layers, right, and so. So the formative thing that I started to talk about, the formative thing for me was when my mom said to me as a kid she said she said some people are surface swimmers and some people want to be deep sea divers. Oh yeah, I love that, right, and so that's a metaphor like, my mom's a brilliant woman and um, yeah, like I can't bring it in here.

Speaker 2: 40:14

I can't do enough.

Speaker 2: 40:15

Shout outs to my she's yeah, I mean, she's like one.

Speaker 2: 40:18

She's one of my favorite people in the whole world, for sure, and we have a great relationship, which I'm very, very, very grateful for, and I do everything I can, as she's getting older, to help her and be there for her and stuff. But she said that to me and it stuck with me. So it's like if you want to understand an onion, and if you peel away those first couple brown papery layers, you know like those come off really easily, right. And then you get to that, that first kind of like real oniony layer that you'd actually want to eat, right. And then you got to kind of like get your if you're doing it with your hands, right, you'd have to like get your fingernails in there and really pull at it and and eventually you know you're pulling away all these layers of this onion and and you're you know you're pulling away all these layers of this onion and you're crying and your hands are going to smell for maybe a day or two, and you got onion under your fingernails.

Speaker 2: 41:12

Your breath.

Speaker 2: 41:13

Right, yeah, exactly. So all that is to say that the levels of analysis framework is like how do you peel away the layers of things like asking questions, asking questions that lead to other questions, for the sake of having a full, deep understanding of something? Oh yeah, you know, um, I mean one of the things you know, like um, and I, I guess I kind of want to have a little disclaimer because we're probably going to get into some stuff that's controversial and it might even be upsetting for sometimes for people to hear and I don't intend any upset, um, but one thing that I've learned, especially studying history and the history of politics and the history of ideas, is like a lot of the ideas and the things that we think we know, if you really dig into them, they're not true. Like what? And they're not real what you got.

Speaker 2: 42:23

So, like take slavery, for example um, you know this is, it's a. It's a very difficult topic, right, um? And and I've heard people have very good understandings and I've also heard, you know, politicians talk about how, you know, black people were the only people that were enslaved. You know, and yes, to a degree that's true about our history in this country, but these things exist within a much greater context. You know, context, yeah, you know, and so in, and this is not and I don't mean this in a way to like belittle any group's experience or anything like that.

Speaker 2: 43:17

Again, it's like the levels of analysis, like how do I have like the most complete understanding of this thing? Right, you know, and so you know. It's like you look at history of different places and slavery is the norm of you know. You look at whether it's Native American cultures enslaved one another. You know the Vikings enslaved the Irish. The Barbary pirates, you know the Corsairs, the Barbary pirates, the Corsairs, they were North African pirates who enslaved Europeans for several hundred years. Oh, wow, I always ask people, where does the word slave come from?

Speaker 1: 43:59

Do you know, I don't actually Let me think Slave, slavs, I think we might have talked about this.

Speaker 2: 44:03

Yeah, yeah, the Slavic people. Slavs, I think we might have talked about this. Yeah yeah, the Slavic people of Eastern Europe. Okay, right, and again, it's important to understand these things on a deeper level Because a lot of things are used. It's like these things are used politically and otherwise, and they're used to divide people.

Speaker 2: 44:32

Talking about, you know, talking about these ahistorical versions of history for their own political gain. That ends up polarizing people. You know, it's like I want to like, jump up and down and scream and be like you. Either you're either ignorant of the history of the world or you know the history of the world and you're lying about it. Right, right, and I'm not really sure which one is worse. Maybe the lying about it, if you know the truth is worse. Um, but, yeah, I mean it. You know, it's like. You know, look into all those things. If, if you want to learn about slavery, like, look into it. Right, you know, I mean and, and, and. Those answers are probably going to be uncomfortable to people. You know, like, like the fact that, um, you know, I, I didn't know for a long time, I didn't know that north africans enslaved europeans.

Speaker 2: 45:39

You know, it's part of the reason that that the united states Navy was created oh really, yeah Was to stop, because they were pirates on ships and they were attacking and taking the cargo and enslaving the people. And there was a point where the United States was paying the Barbary pirates a large amount of money every year to basically not attack our ships, yeah, wow, and so it's just.

Speaker 2: 46:10

we have to understand that looking back like that was the norm for everyone. You know, study Japanese history, study Chinese history, study the African history. I mean study the history of the peoples of the Americas. You know North America, central America, south America, slavery is all throughout all of their histories.

Speaker 2: 46:35

You know slavery wasn't officially outlawed in Africa until 1981. Yeah, I remember you said that, and so, like these are really uncomfortable truths that I mean I take no pleasure in any of this. You know, I'm part of my heritage is Irish. You know, the Barbary pirates enslaved the Irish. The Vikings, well, enslaved the Irish. The British certainly took advantage of the Irish quite a bit. The British certainly took advantage of the Irish quite a bit. You know and it's like people don't know that you know, I mean, the United States is the only country that fought a war to end slavery.

Speaker 2: 47:15

That's a good point. They don't know that. You know we worked with the British, at great cost of lives and treasure, to end the slave trade. Um, you know, and it's all of this information is available, right, and so it's what?

Speaker 1: 47:34

let me ask you something, um, as far as, because you really do seem very well versed in history, different histories, you know, where did your love for that come come from, and and what? What made you? What made you want to want to learn those things yourself?

Speaker 2: 47:54

um, I've always loved history. Um, my mom is is a is a brilliant woman. She's studied history quite a bit, which is interesting because we agree about a lot and we also disagree about things. So my mom and I have very spicy conversations at times, and we, we, I think we learn a lot from each other, yeah.

Speaker 2: 48:16

Yeah, because, because you know we have different interests and you know she's obviously lived through a lot more than I have. Um, but I, you know, studying native american cultures when I was a kid, that was a big thing for me. Um, uh, I was a big fan of davy crockett, like I just thought. Like the idea of this person being able to, you know, survive in the wilderness and make a name for himself, which is like something that very few people could probably actually do now, is to like survive in the wilderness with, like a knife and a hatchet and a Flint and steel.

Speaker 1: 48:53

And it's not anything like the naked and afraid shows, right, right.

Speaker 2: 48:58

Right. But yeah, I mean from you know I used to go to. I would. I always loved reenactments. Would love going to to to tour like old battlefields. Uh, would love going to to to tour like old battlefields. Um, uh, we used to go to williamsburg for a number of years for christmas, oh, wow, and yeah. And then when I was a little little kid, I went to a place a few times with a friend of mine. We I went with them on their family trips two or three times and it was a reenactment place where all of the reenactors would act as if they lived in that time and did not know of. Like today, oh, wow, right. So they're like, how did you get here?

Speaker 2: 49:46

and I'm like, oh, we drove, it's like they took a time machine yeah, yeah, they, they like acted as if they didn't know what a plane was what a car was. They acted as if they really were living in that time frame and did not have knowledge of our time. So, I remember that being really interesting.

Speaker 2: 50:05

I think that there's so much to be learned from history um that, like you, could study one culture for your entire life and and not learn at all right, you know and um, I'm a person who's, like, I really like learning, and I guess that comes with being an autodidact, but I've always just really enjoyed learning and I've always enjoyed, like, knowing what the actual truth of things are.

Speaker 1: 50:40

Oh yeah, you know, and not just like the face value, not just like what you hear or you know, read in, maybe like a textbook itself, but finding out like the true history of things and not just what's, like you know, spewed out there.

Speaker 2: 50:58

It's, yeah, it's that levels of analysis thing again. Um, you know, and I mean a lot of the, a lot of the truths of our history. In I mean a lot of the truths of our history, I mean as humans, but in our country too, a lot of the things that people talk about politically now it's almost like people are just willfully ignorant of our history, right, ignorant of of our history, right, um, you know, like I mean, this is probably going to sound somewhat controversial, but like the idea, like the fact of our history of of discrimination, of like anti-black discrimination, like the truth of our history is that it was political, you know, in in large sense, right now I'm not.

Speaker 2: 51:55

I mean, I'm not saying that there weren't racist people in all, because of course there were, but the but that was largely driven by politics. You know, every single jim crow law, uh, slavery itself, the kkk, um, discrimination laws, these were all a part of the democrat party. They were all a part of the democrat party platform. The confederacy was the democrat party. They were the party of slavery. Um lincoln was the first republican president and and the part of that platform was the abolition of slavery. Right, and people don't realize that before, you know, after we broke away from great britain, before the united states was the united, before it became the united states, when it was just all the colony states, that some of those states tried to end slavery. Back then, oh, wow, you know so. So, and I say this because I don't like tribalism, okay, studying history has taught me that when you put people into groups, you dehumanize them, right, wow, like we're, like white men, right? So what the fuck does that mean?

Speaker 2: 53:19

I know, right, I mean, I can cuss on your podcast yeah, yeah, because I get a little fired up sometimes right get it, but like what the fuck does that mean?

Speaker 2: 53:26

yeah that doesn't define me in any way, right? Um, and? And so there's this narrative and it's highly politicized that it was white people against black people. And there is truth to that, of course, but it was the democrat party that was driving that narrative. You know it was a political narrative and it's something that you know. Today. There's like this narrative that Republicans are racist and all of these other different things, and it's like there's very apply the levels of analysis to these politicized discussions and you pull away the layers of the onion and you look at the actual history. Like, please, if you're watching this and you're questioning what I'm saying, like please go and look all this stuff up. Yeah, like the democrats encouraged, filibustered the civil rights laws.

Speaker 2: 54:34

What does filibuster mean again? Um, basically delaying action by, um, having just endless debate. Okay, so I think they debated for like 70 days or something. I don't know if it's still the record, but I'm pretty sure it was the record for the longest filibuster. It may still be. I don't know if it's still the record, but I'm pretty sure it was the record for the longest filibuster.

Speaker 2: 54:53

It may still be, I don't I can't I can't know all of the facts and figures, but who debated who?

Speaker 1: 54:59

did the debating.

Speaker 2: 55:01

Well, they didn't. They didn't want the vote to happen, so they're basically stalled. I mean, if you, if you look at the voting, you can look at the voting records and the Republicans supported the civil rights legislation to a much larger degree than the Democrats did. When Teddy Roosevelt started the progressive party, he didn't invite the the black democrat I mean, I'm sorry, the the black delegates, because he wanted to pander to the racist southern democrats what is the progressive party?

Speaker 1: 55:44

again, what? How would you define that?

Speaker 2: 55:47

um, well, he, I mean it's. He started that, that party like he. He was a republican and he was snubbed by the republican party for the presidential nomination against um taft. I think it was okay don't fact check me too hard on that, um, but yeah, but I'm pretty sure. But anyway. So he knew he wasn't going to get the nomination. He started the Progressive Party, which is supposed to be more about workers' rights and a lot of things that we consider as progressive today. But even like the progressives have a dark history as progressive today, but but even like the progressives have a dark history.

Speaker 2: 56:32

Um, people, I think today, like there's we're just so highly propagandized that, like, please, like, ask these questions and go and look at these things. You know, please, like, go and do your research and don't outsource your thinking. Don't let these people on these squawk boxes you know whether it's on your phone or a tv like, don't let these people hijack your mind, you know? Um, I mean, yes, of course, there ended between 1865 and 1900. Do you know how many black politicians were elected to office, and I'm talking even senators and congress people? Do you, do you?

Speaker 1: 57:25

know, I mean I, I would maybe possibly venture to guess, maybe like 20?.

Speaker 2: 57:35

Multiply 1,500. Oh wow, oh my gosh.

Speaker 2: 57:40

So the real truth of this is the real truth of this time in our history, was that black people were standing together. Okay, black people were were standing together. Okay, and and I say this as a person like I've I've worked with so many black artists and like love their stories and just I've made art with these people like I don't, you know, I have nothing but love in my heart for everyone and I don't I don't see like, of course I see people's skin. Of course I see people's skin color. Of course I see people's differences. Of course I respect different cultures, but I don't think that any of your outward characteristics is what defines you. You know what I'm saying. So the real truth of, as I see it, the real truth of this time period was that these black politicians were gaining power.

Speaker 2: 58:28

We have to remember there's like four million freed people now in the south and and that's where we get the kkk from the kkk was started by former confederate soldiers I believe six, I think um who were democrats, and it was they started the kKK and they terrorized black people. They terrorized, and in the movie that I that I told you about that, that you watched, it's called the free state of Jones.

Speaker 1: 59:00

Yeah, and it's a Matthew.

Speaker 2: 59:01

McConaughey film it's, it's. You know I'm not a huge movie buff, but that's one of the ones that they have a brilliant depiction of this whole thing right.

Speaker 1: 59:12

Yeah, it really does help you understand um the history and and how um unfortunate some of these circumstances in the uh the united states uh were. But I I do feel like it really the movie itself really did kind of show the perseverance of some of those characters and, gosh man, it really made me think of just some of the things that I consider a problem or a struggle you know, is nothing.

Speaker 2: 59:51

The incredible strength of the black community at that time was seen as a huge threat. Yeah, you know, and like I just don't know how well people understand that time. You know, reconstruction and post reconstruction. Reconstruction was, reconstruction was uh, until 1877, I believe. Okay, um, so it didn't, it didn't last that long and like, and grant didn't really want to send troops down south very much. That became fairly unpopular, um, as I mean, of course, like I was like, why would martial law be popular?

Speaker 2: 1:00:32

Like nobody's going to be a fan of that for too long, right, but even the northerners were, you know, tiring of that. So so that's, you know that's like where we get a lot of this from. You know, and, and you know, I mean it's to me like I have mixed feelings about, you know, confederate statues. I mean that's another thing. I mean I'm sure people are going to be upset to hear that at some point. But you know, like this is respecting perspectives.

Speaker 1: 1:00:59

Got to man. That's why we're here.

Speaker 2: 1:01:01

And some of these things like, yes, a lot of our history is uncomfortable, but I have, you know, I have mixed feelings about it and I, I, you know, but it is democrats taking down statues of past democrats and you know, and and I don't mean like I don't like politicians in general, I don't really like either of the political parties. So I feel like I'm fair to criticize all politicians.

Speaker 2: 1:01:26

I think we all are you know and I and I think that even if you do have party loyalty, if you are the type of person who feels a loyalty to one party or another, or maybe as an independent or something else like, I still think that one of the best things you can do is criticize your political party and the other people. And look at both sides of these arguments. You know, again, with like, respecting perspectives. I mean, like we know what it looks like when the left goes too far. You know, um, again with history. I mean people don't realize, like the idea that the idea that nazis are on the right wing, like it, doesn't it? That to me doesn't it's a new idea. Like the nazis were socialists. Right, nazi literally means national socialist german workers party. Okay, like they were socialists.

Speaker 2: 1:02:25

Um, to get back to the progressive thing, yeah, the, the progressives, early progressives, believed in things like eugenics. What is that again? Um, eugenics, essentially like the, the. The basic view is is essentially the idea that certain people or types of people are basically like, bad for the gene pool. Right, it's, it's a very um, these, it's a very like it's, it's this. It ties into this political ideology that that people have that like we know better than everybody else, and so you just have to let us do all of the thinking and all of the planning and everything's going to get better, which, again, like there is no historical evidence that that's true.

Speaker 2: 1:03:20

Right, this is, this is just an ideology. It's like a thought that people grab a hold of and they think, yeah, this is the way. But it's basically the idea that, you know, we should essentially kill off people that are going to be bad for the gene pool. So I mean, go and look this stuff up, like, go and look up the history of these ideas, like, if you're interested, study the history of ideas Like what is eugenics, what is Marxism, like what is critical theory and what are these things, and like, go back to the lineage, you know, go back to Das Kapital and go back to, you know, the beginning of Marxist thought.

Speaker 2: 1:04:02

Like, essentially Marxist thought is the idea that the world is divided into oppressors and oppressed Right. World is divided into oppressors and oppressed right, and and it plays out in history in things like the holodomor, like everyone knows, of the nazi holocaust right, and I realize I'm talking a lot and no, it's okay, man, I'm very, I'm a very passionate person and I, when I was growing up, I always felt like this is going to get a little personal.

Speaker 2: 1:04:36

I always try to explain things to my dad and I felt like he didn't understand, so my way of compensating for that was to try to be a really good explainer. Yeah, you are, and it's benefited me immensely as like a teacher and a mentor, but anyway. So this idea of you know it played out in what was called the Holodomor, which was the Ukrainian genocide. So the idea was that the people that were successful farmers right, they had a house, they had a piece of land, they had maybe a few, you know, some livestock, you know these were seen as like the successful people. The idea was that they're successful not because you know, because they learned how to farm or they worked hard or they sacrificed or you know any of the other number of reasons why we know that people would be successful.

Speaker 2: 1:05:35

The idea was that they were successful because they were oppressing others, right? And so this Marxist idea comes along and they say, well, we're going to call these people kulaks, right? And so what we're going to do is we're going to get rid of all the kulaks and we're going to take the farms for ourselves because we're the oppressed people. So what happened is, of course, they killed the farmers who were. You know, ukraine was and is still a breadbasket. Essentially, I mean, it's a farming, it's a flat piece of farmland. Basically, you know obviously not entirely, but you get what I'm saying and so they killed all the farmers and they expropriated all their farms and the next thing, you know, you know however, many millions of people died of starvation.

Speaker 1: 1:06:24

Wow man. Let me let me, let's dig a little bit.

Speaker 2: 1:06:29

Sorry, it's really uplifting conversation.

Speaker 1: 1:06:40

No man, it's actually.

Speaker 3: 1:06:42

It's something that we need to kind of talk about and it helps people, I think, drives them into finding answers for themselves.

Speaker 2: 1:06:47

But let's go to the topic of like how to think and what to think you know you were kind of getting, we were kind of going down that for a second but kind of dig a little bit as to you know what that means and you know how people can take that I think about. It is like what we're told you know. Like we're told I'm sorry, what to think is what we're told. Like we're told something about politics and we're told that you know this person is, you know whatever, whatever pejorative term that they're going to use you know, and and we're told what to think.

Speaker 2: 1:07:44

You know they have these, you know it's. It's kind of like the difference between if you have a tv, you know you have a TV news and somebody's telling you the events, versus a roundtable of people all giving their opinion about something. So that's like being told what to think. It's like if you find that the ideas that are in your head are just things that you've heard people say over and over and over again. Like you really, really if, if you want to do this levels of analysis thing, you really have to dig in and realize that some things that you think you know, you're going to realize you're wrong.

Speaker 2: 1:08:26

You're wrong like be humble about it like own the fact that you know what and own it and move on and move right and try and teach people and I mean, and that's why, if you can, you know that's why I'm here.

Speaker 2: 1:08:38

I mean I'm here to have you know, like when we first talked about this, I said like some of these conversations might get really uncomfortable and uncomfortable to listen to and and I understand like I used to be a lot different than I am now. I've learned how wrong I was about a lot of things by studying a lot of history, um, but yeah, so how to think versus what to think? I mean how to think is like the levels of analysis thing. You know it's like who, what, where, when, why, how. You know like you can start with that, like that's a good levels of analysis piece. You know you asked me the other day like how do you, how would you apply that to your work and what every?

Speaker 1: 1:09:25

day.

Speaker 2: 1:09:26

So. So when you were at work that day, how did it show up for you, like the levels of analysis? Let's see here. So when you were at work that day, how did it show?

Speaker 1: 1:09:32

up for you, like the levels of analysis? How did it show up for you? Let's see here. Well, as I entered the people's houses, I kind of asked them lots of questions and tried to understand, like, had we ever been there before? You know what were some of the problems that they were? It was really asking questions, it was. You know, why are we here?

Speaker 1: 1:09:57

And the question sort of led to the next yeah, led to the next question, and then kind of also led to the customer even like delving some information that they didn't think was applicable to the situation in helping me diagnose the problem, when it actually ended up being something very important to me diagnosing the problem itself.

Speaker 1: 1:10:25

So, yeah, I kind of navigated my whole day with those questions and, yeah, man, it really helped me to figure out some of the problems that some of the heaters and the air conditioners that I was fixing, helped me figure out how to get to the bottom of the actual problem. Get to the bottom of the actual, you know, the problem. And it also allowed me to do it in a way that, like, was educational and it helped me kind of learn throughout the process and then, at the same time, what it did was. It helped me learn about the customer, you know, and like some of the things that they were going through and like, say, it was like an out, now the challenges were coming up against, like going to, like, an elderly woman's house who, like, weren't able to answer some of those questions.

Speaker 1: 1:11:20

So I had to kind of like levels of analysis like myself, like okay, am I asking the right questions?

Speaker 2: 1:11:27

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:11:28

You know, it made me really think about um, am I, yeah, am I digging in the right direction to be able to find, you know, the answer to a problem that we, you know, we can probably solve together? But I mean, think, man, there's so many questions, there's so many problems out there that maybe we're just not, you know, asking you know the right questions to. So it takes a little bit to think about that.

Speaker 2: 1:11:57

So, yeah, let me ask you, brian, you know, what is, or are, some of the hardest things about the levels of analysis for you to either like, grasp or, you know of explain, to kind of, to kind of give to the people I think the most challenging thing for me has has been learning when I'm wrong and recognizing, like the things that you know, that where the evidence does not line up with my position and you know, it's almost like there's too many examples to list, but one that's probably relatable and also I know, is going to be controversial for a lot of people, obviously I don't shy away from controversy. Shout out to Zippo, by the way, because his hand warmer is amazing.

Speaker 3: 1:12:56

In case anybody's wondering like yeah, like this is like it's a little cold.

Speaker 2: 1:13:00

It's been keeping my hands warm. I don't mind the cold, I just don't like being cold.

Speaker 1: 1:13:05

Right, you said that.

Speaker 2: 1:13:14

But yeah, like I mean the idea of like being immune to evidence, you know, like the Bible says, by their fruits you shall know them Right. So it's like. What that means to me is that you have to look at the evidence of things you know it's like.

Speaker 2: 1:13:28

You know, okay, we have X, y, z political policy, right, you know? I mean maybe you want to say, well, you know, Baltimore's been run by the, the Democrat Party, since 1967. Like, and and what's the? Is there evidence that that it's really gotten better? And I don't mean to be bashing on the Democrats, like I, I don't. I don't like politicians. I just am using this as an example, of course, um, but you know, my mom told me a story. We were talking about the history of baltimore and kind of doing a deep dive, and she said that when she was a kid her and her family used to get dressed up and go shopping on howard street and howard street was like the she-she shopping district, like with the fancy department stores. You been to Howard Street lately?

Speaker 1: 1:14:17

Right. Who knew Right Gosh? You know there are pockets of, you know certain places that maybe aren't what they once were.

Speaker 2: 1:14:28

That's a nice way of saying it. It's not what it once was, yeah, for sure, um, but it's interesting because if you go there, you can actually see some of the remnants of the past of like the old like hosier cone and like some of the old department stores, um, but you know, by by their fruits you shall know them like, like, are these politicians really making anything better?

Speaker 2: 1:14:51

You know, and to the extent that people want to hate other people for what they think their political beliefs are, I mean, people might think they know what my political beliefs are by some of the comments I've made. I guarantee you that you don't. You know, because it's a lot more complex than just picking a side to me, right? You know, I very much consider myself an independent and, like I said, I don't like either political party. I like some ideas on both sides. But, um, you know, like, don't be immune to evidence. Like, if there's evidence that you're wrong, you're're probably wrong. You know it's like.

Speaker 2: 1:15:30

Occam's razor right. The simplest explanation is probably the right one, right? You know, it's like people used to go and sleep in Druid Hill Park when my mom was a kid in the summertime, because not everybody had air conditioning. Wow, I mean, that's how far we've fallen, in a way. And don't get me wrong, like I love this city. This city has given me so much. I've given a lot of myself to the city and the people of this city, so I don't mean to sound like really negative, but again it's.

Speaker 2: 1:16:05

It's that levels of analysis where, like the facts, you know, like, as, as conservative commentator Ben Shapiro says, facts don't care about your feelings, you know, and a lot of people are like bristle at the thought of that, right, but and I get it, but it's still true Like, whether you like it or not, it's still true. And so we have to, you know, we have to confront real things and real problems with real solutions. You know, and I hate to see all of this political division, you know, and I hate to see people that, especially like people that say that they're tolerant, be so intolerant of anyone that disagrees with them. Have a conversation Like respect perspectives with them. Right, have a conversation like respect, perspectives. I mean, like you know, like my family is goes from one side of the political spectrum to the other and we still we all talk and we all love each other and we disagree and we learn from one another. And I mean one of my cousin's husbands.

Speaker 1: 1:17:06

I've had like brilliant conversations with him and we disagree royally disagree about stuff, right, but I think the fact that you're taking the time to talk about it is extremely important and, uh, I hope this conversation and lots of the other conversations that, um, I've had with some other guests have helped uh, you know some, some, some listeners out there to be able to pose certain questions. Let me ask you this, though you mentioned a Bible verse there. Let's see, let's touch just a little bit on religion itself. Do you feel like religion is something that is critical in our navigating life itself? I think that was the way I wanted to ask it. I do.

Speaker 2: 1:18:01

I think, religion and spirituality. What's always interested me is that religion and science dead end at the same place. Some people call it Genesis in the Christian tradition. Oh, some people call it genesis in the in the christian tradition. Some people call it the big bang theory.

Speaker 2: 1:18:16

But they dead end at the same place. Yeah, so, um, I do, I, you know religion. Um, I consider myself to be more spiritual than religious, like, like, personally, yeah, I have studied Christianity. I mean, I was raised as a Christian. I sort of found my way into Buddhism, which I don't really consider Buddhism so much a religion as like more of a way of being. Yeah, I love that. But yeah, I mean, in my travels I've been to synagogues and temples and Buddhist temples, hindu temples. I've seen ancient rituals in Nepal. They say that there's 365 days a year and 366 festivals a year in Nepal. Oh, wow, yeah, it's really cool. They have a festival for everything. It's wild. It's on my bucket list, dude. Go it's and let me know it's, I'll give you some pointers. It's, it's an amazing place. It's like india light, oh like india is like the most intense place in the world that I've ever been to and why do you say that?

Speaker 1: 1:19:26

what do you mean by intense?

Speaker 2: 1:19:28

It is an all-out assault on your senses. It is sight, sound, smells, the taste. I mean you go from the most amazing smells to stale urine in like five steps. The people are amazing, but it's also like they have no personal space so somebody might sit on your lap on like a tuk-tuk. I mean, it's also like they have no personal space.

Speaker 2: 1:19:50

So you're, you know somebody might sit on your lap on like a tuk-tuk. I mean it's wild, but I do think that religion binds us together. I think that we would do well to remember that. You know, everyone wants to talk about rights. You know the right to this and the right to that and and I'm a big um, I'm sort of like a classical liberal. I guess you would say which is? You can go and look that up, um, to have a full explanation, but it's it's. It's different than what a lot of people would consider like liberal now, um, but I do think that you know I'm a big believer in the first amendment, like there's a lot of places in the world where I've lived, places in the world where you can't say what's on your mind.

Speaker 2: 1:20:36

And there's nothing worse. Trust me, that's unfortunate. The idea of misinformation. Let's not even get into that. But, anyway.

Speaker 2: 1:20:45

misinformation is just something that they don't want you to talk about pretty much. But yeah, the idea that we have human rights comes from religion. It comes from the idea that we're all created in the image of God. In other words, each human being has value. Like you don't have to do anything. You don't have to be anything. Like everybody matters have to be anything. Like everybody matters. Everybody has value. That's why I've always been a humanist. That's why I try to treat everyone equally. I try to treat people with respect. I always try to make people laugh, like I purposely didn't. I think I cracked one joke earlier, but I purposely didn't try to like make you know, make a lot of jokes, although if you ask my coworkers.

Speaker 2: 1:21:32

I'm always making my coworkers laugh.

Speaker 2: 1:21:33

I'm always trying to lighten the mood a little bit. I think humor is a very powerful gift and I've always liked comedians and stuff Me too. Yeah, I mean, I do think that, maybe not being like a religious fundamentalist necessarily, but understanding that we're all connected and in whatever way that shows up for you and you're on that journey and you're learning if you want to learn about these different perspectives, yeah, I do think it matters. You know the idea that we have human rights. I mean, you know we were like a first, a first country to have the idea that our rights come from God essentially, not from other men, Like that's why our Bill of Rights says that the government can't do things to us, because they're not the ones that give us our rights.

Speaker 2: 1:22:39

Oh yeah, that's a good point Right, like we have rights because, however you wish to see it, we are created in the image of God, right, and I think that's really powerful, and I've lived in places, like I said, where you don't have those rights, and I guess what I want to leave people with, what I really want to leave people with, is gratitude.

Speaker 2: 1:23:07

Yeah, you know it's so easy to complain about things and and I'm not saying that there's nothing to complain about, because of course certain things could be better but if you're complaining on the internet, on your thousand dollar cell phone sitting on the couch, you know you buy your food from the grocery store like everybody else. You know, like study some history, like realize that a hundred years ago most, most people lived on less than a dollar a day.

Speaker 2: 1:23:41

You know realize that in in for a long time, people lived with livestock in their house because it was so cold, yeah, that the livestock was part of what helped to warm the house. I mean, can you imagine living I mean, this is true like the dark ages and things like that. I mean they call it the dark ages for a reason. Like I said to you, I would love to do a podcast for people about the horrors of history, yeah, I feel like you could educate a lot of people with this information, but just be grateful, like and I don't mean to say like, don't work for change or don't you know, don't put your all into what you're passionate about.

Speaker 2: 1:24:24

Like, of course, do those things, you know, of course. Like, try to make the world around you better. Of course. Like, see the things that are wrong. Like, yes, like, yes. But be grateful for all of these things because we live in the most prosperous, information, rich, wealthy time in human history, you know. Be grateful that you have free speech. Be grateful that you live in a place where, in a time where, you're not constantly farming all day, every day, and be grateful that you're not a serf. Be grateful Like go study a period in history.

Speaker 3: 1:25:12

Like, pick a period, pick the Middle Ages, pick a hundred years ago, a thousand years ago, right and just you know and and like don't look at everyone in history as if you know better than them.

Speaker 2: 1:25:27

Right, like understand, like yes, they screwed things up, of course, but understand that they were operating in the time, that they were operating with the things that they knew. And a hundred years from now, people are going to look back and they're going to be like what the fuck were they doing in 2026? I mean, we just lived through a pandemic, right.

Speaker 2: 1:25:52

And talk about the levels of analysis, to kind of tie all of these things together the levels of analysis, the not outsourcing your thinking, the what to think versus how to think. We were told all of us, constantly, every day, that the jab, as some people call it, was safe and effective. Right, and this is a thing that's, I understand, highly controversial, right, polarizing for a lot of people. People were saying, oh, if you don't get the jab, you shouldn't be treated in a hospital. I'm like whoa, really Like let's be human about this, right, but we were told that it's safe and effective. There's no evidence that it. Like. What evidence are you going on? Show me the long-term testing? Oh, we didn't do long-term testing. So, again, it's like don't be immune to the evidence, don't let people outsource your thinking. Think for yourself. And if you think for yourself and you come back to the same conclusion, okay, yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:27:01

Or maybe you're still wrong, yeah, yeah, you know, like my sister asked me what I was going to do on this podcast and I said that I hope to help people connect the dots. Okay, right, but you can't connect dots that you don't know exist, right. So learn about history, think for yourself, like, really question things, like you said when you were at work that day, like one question led to the next, led to the next led to the next, and it led to you being a better tech that day.

Speaker 1: 1:27:35

Yeah, definitely, you know, it did so led to the next, led to the next and it led to you being a better tech that day. Yeah, definitely, you know so, um, I love, I love all those lessons that, uh, that we can learn. You know, um, and you mentioned, uh about you were talking about thousand dollar cell phones um wait, who is this?

Speaker 1: 1:27:53

I hear something in the distance here. Yeah, yes, uh, can I help you? Oh, this is. This is brian. Oh wait, brian potts, what year is this? 19, 1990. Oh goodness, okay, wait a second. I got somebody here who really, um, just wants to uh, speak with you and I'm going to hand the phone over here.

Speaker 2: 1:28:21

Hey. So look, I know that you're stubborn and that you're probably not going to want to take my advice, but what I will tell you is that you're going to live a great life. You're going to follow your passions, you're going to make people around you laugh, you're going to make music that's going to change people's lives, and some of the things that you do will lead to growth in communities that you won't realize until years later. On a personal note, stay away from the tall blonde from high school. She's no good. Other than that, you made pretty good choices, but definitely that one. Just keep walking. When you get there. You'll know what I mean when you get there. But yeah, you know, um, take good care of yourself. Uh, start saving money a little bit earlier probably a good idea. Um, don't pass up any adventures. I know you won't. I know you're an adventurous person and, for god's sake, keep playing and practicing your drums. Love you, man, I love you all right, you heard him.

Speaker 1: 1:29:40

Love you dog peace nice, nice, that's fun.

Speaker 2: 1:29:45

I like that I like that.

Speaker 1: 1:29:47

All right, all right, and this is even funner.

Speaker 2: 1:29:49

But I guarantee you, if I got a call back then I'd be like you'd be like I'm not taking it, I'm not it. So I tried to give myself good advice. That advice I think I would have taken. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:29:59

There you go.

Speaker 2: 1:30:00

Yeah, I'm stubborn. So I mean, I know myself well All right, so I have some right.

Speaker 1: 1:30:05

I got some rapid fire questions here.

Speaker 2: 1:30:07

Okay.

Speaker 1: 1:30:08

All right, and this the dome as quick as possible. Okay, all right. Who is the funniest person in your family me, oh darn. Who is your favorite character from dc or marvel comics?

Speaker 2: 1:30:24

uh, you know, I don't really know. I never got into comics. Okay, love the art, I just never followed any okay, which fast food restaurant could you do without? Uh, I haven't eaten mcdonald's since 2010. I will never eat it again. There you go or taco bell.

Speaker 1: 1:30:40

I don't like taco bell either. Okay, what does love mean to you?

Speaker 2: 1:30:46

um, love is a is a journey, um, it's a home, it's something I try to reserve a part for myself and a part for everyone around me who matters, you know, and all my friends and family and stuff, and you know I love you all and my Jackson family and and my Potts family and all my extended families and, yeah, yeah, everybody love my music family too, love it.

Speaker 1: 1:31:14

Who's the most famous person you've ever met?

Speaker 2: 1:31:18

that's a good one uh off the top of my head, maybe, maybe dennis chambers, oh okay that's him, that's it, that's your answer famous baltimore drummer. Look him up, go listen to him. He's amazing. Love the guy to death.

Speaker 1: 1:31:32

He's, he's awesome does money buy happiness?

Speaker 2: 1:31:38

um, yes and no. Uh, the cost of everything is the time that you give up for that thing love that perfect.

Speaker 1: 1:31:47

What do you remember about preschool?

Speaker 2: 1:31:52

hmm, um, I remember rapid fire. Yeah, I remember it was a. It was a little catholic school, I think, or maybe a lutheran. It was a lutheran school actually all right, it was a cool place, okay, I wasn't like one of the really cool kids, but that was okay yeah, preschool man, I'm a cool kid.

Speaker 1: 1:32:11

Now, right name. One rule in your house you'd like to establish?

Speaker 2: 1:32:21

Leave no mess. Lean up after yourself. Love that have you ever broken something and let another person take the blame. No, I'm a pretty honest person. I own up to my mistakes, to the best of my abilities.

Speaker 1: 1:32:36

Have you ever waved at someone you thought you knew? But? Realized you didn't um, I have a photographic memory so if I wave at someone now I know I don't forget people's faces, and I don't forget songs okay, come up with a really good excuse for missing work they're on the line right now um, I don't need an excuse.

Speaker 2: 1:32:56

If I'm well, I don't miss work, so good good answer.

Speaker 1: 1:33:00

If you could add anything to your backyard, what would it be?

Speaker 2: 1:33:05

uh billion dollars in cash oh, you're on point.

Speaker 1: 1:33:09

Two billion dollars, why not? Why not? Do you think you'll ever be famous? What do you think you'll be famous for?

Speaker 2: 1:33:18

I've had chances. I've never wanted to be famous. I've just wanted to follow my passions and make the world a better place and make people laugh when I can.

Speaker 1: 1:33:30

Love it. What game have you spent the most hours playing, whether it's a video game?

Speaker 2: 1:33:36

I've never owned a video game system, um, but I play disc golf and so that's probably nice. I love games, though like like actual games, for sure, games you play with other people if you could be invisible for one um jeez uh I would. I would go somewhere that I would never. I would go see, like, maybe, the inside of a nuclear power plant, or or I would go somewhere, um, maybe in like a highly restricted kind of area and photograph you you know, like document it Love that.

Speaker 1: 1:34:19

If you could repaint the house any color, which color would you use?

Speaker 2: 1:34:28

I don't know, probably like a modern kind of gray.

Speaker 1: 1:34:32

Modern gray. There it is. Do you own a piggy bank? I don't think so. Okay, all right. Which car cartoon do you wish you were a character on?

Speaker 2: 1:34:45

I never got that into cartoons, but I loved this show about drawing. I think it was like commander mark learns to draw or something, and he drew these really cool space creatures and like, yeah, nice.

Speaker 1: 1:35:01

I was never much into cartoons. One last one, coconut or pineapple.

Speaker 2: 1:35:08

Pineapple but coconut water, there we go. Yeah, fresh pineapple though, for sure.

Speaker 1: 1:35:12

For the record. Yeah, all right, bri. Hey man, listen, I really appreciate you being here and thanks for diving into some topics that maybe we haven't gotten to talk about on the podcast in the past and really getting to hear about your musical history, and I look forward to us. We're going to be working on some music in the near future. That's the plan. Yeah, and I'm really excited for that. And, hey, man, thank you for being here. Yeah, thank you.

Speaker 1: 1:35:41

And hey, thanks for joining us tonight on the Respecting Perspectives podcast and we'll see you for the next one. Peace out, Peace out. So.